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Developing Solid Food Plan
  
more_excellent_way:

You wrote: When did anyone decide that THE FAITHFUL should disregard scripture?

When the faithful read scripture that says one thing, but then misinterpret it as saying completely different, and blame others for not doing the same. They are better off not reading it at all, than reading it and jumping to incorrect conclusions (and then thinking that those incorrect conclusions are A Message From God, and refusing to listen to anyone who disagrees with it.)

Jesus said *HE* was The Way. He never said *WE* are The Way.


What Is The Perfect Law
  
more_excellent_way:

Fear of the unknown is a very important survival instinct. This is because all creatures (including human) have a much better chance of navigating problems and dangers in areas where they are familiar, than areas where they are not.

People who believe everything they hear uncritically are very gullible, and can easily be swept away on every wind of doctrine. We are told not to do that - but instead, to "test the spirits, to see if they are from God". Paul praised the Bereans, because they didn't just accept what he told them at face value - instead, they "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so".


Is Jesus Coming Back Soon
  
jerry6593:

To be picky, Matthew 17 said "they appeared", not WHERE they appeared from. Both Moses and Elijah appeared here, even though Elijah was taken into heaven directly while still alive, while Moses died first.

The fact remains that 2 Kings 2:11 said Elijah "went up by a whirlwind into heaven", while John 3:13 says "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

So one of three things must be true:
1) One of these two verses is incorrect
2) Elijah wasn't a man, so the second verse doesn't apply to him
3) Elijah WAS the Son of Man, so it does
None of these conclusions are appealing, but I can't see a fourth option.


Interpret The Bible
  
more_excellent_way:

Sometimes, people are criticized because they are doing God's will (and the Bible mentions this). But sometimes people are criticized because everyone realizes that what they are doing/saying is wrong. Unfortunately, there are many people in the latter category who are deluded into thinking they are in the former category.

"God opposes the proud". Very true.

You think you have better understanding than everybody else. Beware, lest that attitude leads to pride.


Developing Solid Food Plan
  
more_excellent_way:

Jesus himself said that even the greatest among us must become servants. He demonstrated this by washing his disciples' feet - and commanding that they do the same to others. Imagine, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords abasming himself to do a servant's work of washing other people's feet. If he can do it, so can you, I, and everyone else. Anyone who thinks that servant's work is beneath them isn't worthy of him, because they think they're better than Christ.

Even sons. He didn't command us to party because we're the elect. He said that we should be sure to be at our work when he returns.


Is Jesus Coming Back Soon
  
jerry6593:

Deuteronomy 34:5-6:
So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

So Moses was NOT assumed into heaven.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder, and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

John 3:13 directly contradicts this. What a conundrum!


Are You Stiff-necked
  
more_excellent_way:

The biggest way people can become stiff-necked is when they assume they are right and everybody else is wrong. This means they are perfect and without error, and don't need to re-think and re-examine anything, and they also believe everyone else is inferior and less less enlightened than they are. This makes them unteachable and unreachable.

Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of this kind of attitude in real life, and also here on these blogs.

We are supposed to constantly re-examine ourselves to show ourselves worthy. We are supposed to always make sure we are on the right path. The moment we think we are perfect, and that we have finally arrived, we become complacent, and this is where the danger starts.


Are You Stiff-necked
  
You wrote: (666 the trinity of man)

Where do you get this stuff? Nowhere does the Bible say that 666 is "the trinity of man". It is the "number of the beast", nothing more. While Revelation does mention a sort of "trinity of evil" (the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet), 666 only refers to one of them - the beast.


New Generation Of Worshippers
  
Strongaxe,

Yes, Jesus *has conquered* - at the END of God's progressive revelation. People won't understand the end until they first understand the beginning.

EVERY book is finished BEFORE the reader opens the cover, but if they first read the last page, to see how it ends, it won't make any sense. God's revelation is the same.

Jesus and apostles didn't BEGIN with apocalyptic preaching. Why should we?

On "Clamor" you said we should respect each other. In "Perfect Law" you said rebuking is out of place for a godly person. Yet "showoff", "stiffnecked", "karma" are condescending rebuke and disrespect. You should follow your OWN advice before giving it to others.


New Generation Of Worshippers
  
more_excellent_way:

Yes, I did, and I disagree. Children drink milk first, and ONLY LATER eat meat.

Hebrews is good for new believers who are Jewish, and Romans ones that aren't. Revelation is NOT appopriate for new believers. It begins with instructions to long-established churches, and the rest is a scary apocalpytic vision of how things will be at the very end.

When you teach children, you first teach them how to walk and speak, not write a will.

When you teach them math, you start with counting and addition and subtraction. You don't throw calculus in their faces to show them "what Math is REALLY about" - because that will just scare them off.


New Generation Of Worshippers
  
more_excellent_way:

Why should Revelation come first? If it were the first thing anyone read about Christianity, it would likely scare most people away. Note that Jesus didn't preach any of that stuff while he was on earth. Look at his most pivotal sermon - the Sermon on the Mount. Most of his teachings were telling us how to properly live during our lifetime. Those apocalyptic visions didn't come until around 60 years after the crucifixion.

Paul taught that babes first need milk before they learn to eat meat, and apocalyptic literature is some pretty raw meat.


Is Jesus Coming Back Soon
  
jerry6593:

You wrote: Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

That is a reasonable explanation.

On the other hand, there is still nothing in scripture that would explain why Jesus would be sitting idly somewhere for 1800 years, and only then enter the heavenly sanctuary, and spend 200+ years reading through books before rendering a final judgment.

It's inconsistent on its face - because for every day he spends reading, more pages are added to the books, which he would then need to read, ad infinitum, and he would never finish.


What Is The Perfect Law
  
more_excellent_way :

You told Bill to uncritically accept what you write, yet scripture says "Test the spirits to see if they are from God", and Paul praised the Bereans for cross-checking all teachings against what they knew from scripture, rather than just accepting it at face value.

You said Jeshurun referred to "Spiritual Israel". I quoted every single scripture where that name is used, how it referred to physical Israel - yet you consider such informative comments to be an attack (but have yet to show any scripture to corroborate your interpretation). Here, you literally disregard what was actually written in scripture.

Yet you accuse US of doing that?


Is Jesus Coming Back Soon
  
jerry6593:

I literally just quoted Jesus. I don't see how you can possibly spin that into "calling him a liar".

Since you don't seem to like my interpretation of that, how do YOU interpret it?


What Is The Perfect Law
  
more_excellent_way:

You wrote: The Lord never was a fan of dramatized worship. He recognizes the sentiment from the newcomer, but after a while, it is time to get serious with Him.

Excellent point!

We keep hearing new stories about ostentatious worship. Coaches stopping in the middle of the field to pray, while everyone else either watches, or is pressured to join. Jesus said when you pray, go into your room and pray in private.

A preacher who is robbed in the middle of his service, with robbers getting away with a million dollars of jewelry he and his wife are wearing. Who needs a million dollars of jewelry to preach the Gospel, and guess who paid for all that? Jesus said you can't serve both God and Mammon.


What Is The Perfect Law
  
more_excellent_way:

Yet your own recent replies are a kind of rebuke, e.g. implying others are not wise. Calling others "fame-seekers" is a rebuke. "NO WISDOM...shame on you" is a rebuke. "I expect you to be a naysayer and scoffer. You have been well indoctrinated by the moneychanger empire, you are a soldier of the status quo (and a scared little man)." is a rebuke.

As far as I know, I probably am the only person in the world to know the truths that I write (LIVE WITH IT).

The idea that "I, and I alone in the whole world possess the truth" is a major red flag, as it is the cornerstone of every single cult. "LIVE WITH IT" is a smug and arrogant retort.


Is Jesus Coming Back Soon
  
jerry6593:

Jesus also told the repenting thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in paradise", not "2000 years later, after I've read through the books". Was that a parable too?

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Do you hear Moses and the prophets?


In Hebrew, the word QARA means both to read and to proclaim. This is because reading was done out loud. Peasants were generally illiterate. They didn't read scriptures for themselves, but heard them read out loud in the synagogues. And today, we hear them being preached from church pulpits. So, yes.


New Generation Of Worshippers
  
more_excellent_way:

Nehemiah 10:29: Moses the servant of God

Titus: 1:1: Paul, a servant of God

Romans 6:22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life

1 Corinthians 7:22: For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.

The two people who wrote more of the Bible than anyone else called themselves servants.

Paula White said "Anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan", but Jesus said his followers would deny themselves, take up their crosses, and follow him.

Christians are SUPPOSED to humble themselves.


Predestined As A Son Of God
  
more_excellent_way:

You wrote: For 2,000 years, we have been taught wrong. It is finally time that we learn the way the Lord meant us to know truth.

Do you seriously believe that all Christians for 2000 years have been doing it wrong, but you're the first person in two millenia to finally understand the truth? What makes you so special?

"Everyone else is doing it wrong, but I know the truth" is the foundational idea of pretty much every Christian splinter group and cult throughout history.

Yes, we all see through a glass darkly - and that means EVERYBODY, including me, and including you.


New Generation Of Worshippers
  
more_excellent_way:

I have not berated you or gone after you personally (as some others here do to any who disagree with them). I have no issue with you personally.

I just take issue with some doctrinal things you say. I don't say "You're wrong and you're a bad person because of it". I say "You say X, but these scriptures says Y".

If you have scriptures on point, please post them, instead of reacting defensively.

If you think my posting scripture that refutes your position is an attack, it means you love your own doctrinal position more than scripture. THAT is an unwise position.

This is a forum for honest discussion, not "I am right and anyone who disagrees is persecuting me".



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