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What Is A Christian
"The president has proclaimed to all the world that we are no longer a Christian nation!" Donna66

He has? I have not heard about it... But I would like to find out more... Do you know any internet addresses or so where I could read about it? thanx :)

What Is A Christian
What does it mean to be a tomato? -It must fulfill the criteria of what is a tomato. It doesn't help calling it tomato if it isn't really one...

So also with the label of christianity. Unless we fulfill the criteria of what is a christian, we're not actually christians... despite our confession...

I thought I was a christian long before I became one... But it's a huge difference of knowing alot ABOUT Jesus and KNOWING HIM (cf.John17:3).

What's our test?

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John2:4)

"I am crucified wiht Christ...Christ liveth in me, ...the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith..." (Gal.2:20)

Is Wine A Mocker
"how did his drinking adversely affect his family?"Cluny

Just read the whole story. I think the incident was unpleasent to all...

When Adam and Eve sinned, they experienced nakedness. What did God do? He covered them. But to do so, an innocent animal was sacrificed... First illustration of the Saviour come...
In Rev.3:18 God offers white clothes to cover the nakedness. Again, the problem is "nakedness because of sin". Only God can cover it. And this is what He always does - covers it.

Noah's experience with wine should be a warning to us. It's true, it may not be sin to put alcohol into ones mouth, but we increase our risk to sin when we do - just as Noah undressed when he lost control of his mind....

Is Wine A Mocker
"is anyone here advocating inebriation? " Glenn

I don't think so.

But if one has seen just a small part of the pain that a person experiences who cannot control his/her drinking habits, or the pain and problems it may cause for his/her family and friends, one might want to support the work for total avoidance...

I feel sad when I see what injuries it causes to some of my patients too... Direct injuries of body and brain... Or indirectly through accidents... A man in the beginning of the 20s...loosing one of his legs... So meaningless...
It's really not worth the "pleasure"...

Is Wine A Mocker
The Bible doesn't say "the wages of alcohol is death". But it says that "the wages of SIN is death". We increase our risk of sinning when we drink - thus it's NOT wise. And we may temptate and hurt others too.

Noah was NOT declared righteous because of his drinking!
God called him righteous BEFORE the flood and the drinking. But I still think Noah regretted and repented, and God forgave him. But it was not a wise act, and he suffered from it... so did his family.

Knowing the consequences of alcohol we're also responsible for our acts when drunk.

"BE SOBER, BE VIGILANT, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." 1.Pet.5:8

Can I Continue To Sin
"1 John also says that if you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself, and the truth [Jesus] is NOT IN YOU"-Cluny

The topic in 1 John 1:8-10 is NOT wether we fall in sin or not, but what will be the consequences of our acts IF we have sinned.

Do we try to hide or excuse it? Or do we confess it?

It's the same as what's written in Prov.28:13:

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy."

But the best illustration of this was given in the parable about the pharisee and the taxcollector (read Luke 18:9-14!!)

Cluny, if your god cannot help you to overcome the sins of your life, I'm afraid you haven't found the right one yet....

Is Wine A Mocker
How wine can make a wise and righteous person act unwisely and do unrighteous things:

"And Noah...planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken, and he was uncovered within his tent." (Gen.9:20-21) The next verses shows the sad consequences...

Lot, the one righteous man of Sodom, saved by such a miracle, even made incest with 2 of his daughters because of the effects of wine (Gen.19:30-38).

It definately may lead to fall... Sometimes destroying us, sometimes destroying others... I think avoiding alcohol is a good principle, a good way of protecting oneself and others, and also a way of giving an example for others who may not limit the use or control the effects (as we might ourselves)...

Is Wine A Mocker
Anyone who would like to have a surgery - when the surgon has drunk alcohol? Or travel with an aeroplane when the pilot has drunk?

Not me, at least! Besides, these things are forbidden by law. Why? Because we KNOW that alcohol does something to our mind, our watchfulness, our ability to act quickly and rationally...

Swallowing alcohol may not be sin in itself, but when we do we place ourselves in a position where we more easily may fall into sin! We may hurt ourselves or others (-just think about all those accidents!).

Therefore, when we drink it, we're really NOT WISE, as the Proverb says!

Can A Priest Be Called Father
/I suppose you never ask other people to pray for you, do you?
You'd better not, because that would be making these people mediators, right?

Answering with the same reasoning you now use: THEN why would you need the "Fathers" if you may ask anyone to pray for you and it would all do the same good?

Answering the questions: If you trust their prayer to give you indulgence, yes, then you've made them mediators.

And even if they just pray for you, they are never your way to the Father (God). Only Jesus is - "no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME" (John14:6)

Can A Priest Be Called Father
"(When you go to a doctor, are you placing your doctor between you and Jesus? Or do you do something similar when you listen to your pastor?)" - cluny

Well, if you trust that doctor or that pastor to give you a part in salvation which you think you won't get without them, I guess you do. God may USE the doctor or the pastor to help you. But you should not think of them as closer to God than what it's possible for yourself to come.

And what Mima writes about the rosary is a very good example of something (i.e. Mary) taking the position which actually belongs only to Jesus. When He's described at the ONLY mediator, how come she's called a mediator TOO????

Can A Priest Be Called Father
"I don't know anybody who does this..." - Cluny

I'm afraid many people do, Cluny. Confessing sins to a (human) father, so that he can judge and decide forgiveness (which the RCC actually teaches!) - that's just one example.

The Bible tells us that Jesus is the mediator - the only one - between us and God. He's the only one who can have this role - because of who he is!

The Bible calls him our high priest, "holy, harmless, undefiled etc" (see Hebr.7:26-28)!

We're told:

"If any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous" (1John2:1).

So we should confess our sins to Him, not to a "father" (who's just as much a sinner as us)...

Can A Priest Be Called Father
"I don't know anybody who does this..." - Cluny


Another example of how humans ("fathers") are placed in God's position:

Why does the RCC teach that only the church, i.e. its bishops, are the only ones that are able to interpret the scriptures (see "Dei Verbum" no.12+25, document from the 2nd vatican council) - while the Bible says that "they shall teach no more every man his neightbour... saying, Know the Lord, for they sall ALL know me, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord" (Jer.31:34)?

Jesus said The Holy Spirit will teach everyone - also the "least" in the chruch hierarchy - what we need to know to be saved (see John16:7-13)!

Can A Priest Be Called Father
The question is: Do we NEED the "Fathers"?

Concerning His true covenant, God says:

"they shall teach no more every man his neightbour... for they shall ALL KNOW ME, from the least of them unto the greatest..." (Jer.31:34)

Position is unimportant. EVERYONE has the SAME access to God!

Jesus says:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by ME." (John14:6)

If we place humans, dead or alive, between us and Jesus, we turn away from Him, away from the way, truth and life.

Jer.17:5-8 describes this problem very well!

Is Secular Music Okay
Secular music is probably okey as long as it will not remove thoughts from God or provoke unproper feelings.

We are, knowingly or not, influenced by words we hear, especially when we're "passive", as when we listen to music (we seldom analyze what the singer tells us...)

But it's also wellknown that the music itself (the rhytm etc) will influence us. Professionals use this knowledge to create certain feelings (excitement, joy, sadness, fear, devotion...) in the crowd. Some will call it manipulation, and I think they're right.

So even if the lyrics are "christian", the music may be manipulative... so perhaps it's best to avoid some of the "modern christian music" too?

Martin Luther's Reformation
"Holy Tradition (as found in the consensus teaching of the Fathers, and the first seven Holy Ecumenical Synods) never contradicted written accounts!" -Ignatius

But why, then, does your church (I guess you're orthodox since you only recognice the 7 first ec.councils)honour icons? Because of Nicea 787?

But the Bible says:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee ANY graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt NOT BOW DOWN thyself to them, NOR SERVE them..." (Ex.20:4-5).

(This is even the 2nd commandment - which tradition happens to have "removed"...)

Please read Matt.5:17-20 + 15:6-9

Martin Luther's Reformation
Tradition is no problem when it is built on Scripture. But what happens when Tradition (chruch fathers and councils) and Sctipture contradict eachother?

The RCC often follows tradition. But here protestants would (or should!) say: No, sola scriptura!

Paul writes that the christians "are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" and "Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone" (Eph.2:20).

If one follows Tradition instead of what was stated by the Old Testament prophets or written by the apostles in the books of the New Testament, one has chosen ANOTHER foundation. Then it won't be God's house, but something else......

Martin Luther's Reformation
If Martin Luther lived today, he would probably not have joined the Lutheran chruch... The church bearing his name has slovly, but surely moved back towards the RCC (remember the joint declaration 1999! The RCC has not changed... so who has?).

I think Luther would have continued his reforming work if he lived today.

Today's churches - at least its leaders/spokesmen - seem not to bother about the SOLO SCRIPTURA. What seems to be important is being popular... especially among nonbelievers and nominal christians... and bowing down for the pope... who still claims to be the vicar of christ...

I don't think Luther would have joined them in this "christian ecumenical effort"....
I don't think Jesus would neither...

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